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Re: [LUG] My Own Observations Of Course

On 2004.09.27 14:03 "Brough, Tom" wrote: 

Firstly, my appologies for not attending Exeter Meeting, I wanted to
come,
but I ended up on call because of a massive rewiring (Power and
Internet),
as it was I didnt get called up but hey I couldnt risk it.


I had to work too, and I was only in Sowton.

It seems that the meeting stimulated the debate so here are my
observerations

1. Linux tends to invoke a Geek / Religious stereotype but stereotypes
are
just that.


I disagree. Most of the people I know and talk to about computing , know diddley squat about any OS, so to isolate Linux as geeky is mistaken (IMHO).

2. There are good arguments for the ultimate thin client (ie web
browser
based services) but then everything is based on hosting, and network
infrastructure. If you think this is going to help the digital divide
you
would be sadly mistaken.

<snip>
You seem to have assumed that web based services are using the internet. There is no reason not to use "web" based systems in an office or factory environment. In fact, using apache + <your favourite db here> in such an environment has positive benefits. (again IMHO).
</snip> 
3. Classed (fairly or unfairly) as a Geek group, we are not going to
attract
the singularly most important group people to switch to linux .... TNG
...
swearing on this list will not aid this one bit, and maybe you can
hear it
in the primary playground where your kids go to but its highly
discouraged
where my son goes to school. Just because something is fact doesnt
make it
right.

a) are there any children subscribed to this list ?
b) To get the next generation using linux, give them linux machines to use. This last weekend I set up a SUSE 9.1 box for my sisters kids. Mainly so I wouldn't have to keep disinfecting it, but also so that they will not grow up thinking "Windows" is computing.
I realise linux geeks aren't supposed to have girlfriends/wives/partners/WHY , but the truth is they do, and so they are just as likely to have children. Just another variation on "Charity begins at home".

4. Linux is a community project (THE (biggest) community project).
People
from all races, religous backgrounds and financial statuses have
contributed. And yet in Torbay there is not one single community
education
program that is offering a basic introduction to what GNU/Linux is.

I don't think there are any community programs teaching windows as such. Just how to use certain software on a computer that happens to be running windows. Office, web browsers, email and the like.
In order to change that, we have to be political and aim our pitch at the local officials. Plenty of ammo really, no viruses, free software, volunteer IT staff ....

I dont
want to start a Distro war, I personally prefer RH/Fedora, but I
wouldnt
stop anyone who wants to try SUSE, Mandrake, or Debian from doing so,
and a
debian "Masterclass" sounds good, but it has to be balanced with the
needs
of newbies (and even the word newbie prickles with me). If we are
going to
use a community built project to run our computers then shouldnt we be
involving the wider community in its use ?


The wider "computer using" community. The majority of people don't have need for computers. It is as well to remember that.
I have tried to enthuse people with the advantages of linux, but unless they already use a computer, its mostly a waste of time.
In the end, I think it's better to let people come to us, because then they want to learn and use linux.


We dont advertise our meetings ouside our web site, so the message
only gets
to those that know about us already which is logically errr ...  US,
not
much room for growth there then. I think this groups efforts should be
concentrating in these areas. If someone is frightend of joining this
group
simply because they feel intimidated by the "geekyness" of its members
(and
I can be labled in the "geek" category too) then we have failed to get
our
message over.

I think the previous 2 statements are self cancelling. If they already know about us, then they are probably using linux, and ergo are geeks themselves ;-)


Every member is important from first page in the manual
to
20,30,40 years IT experiance, and potential members are even more
important.
I have been in IT long enough now to recognise that you cant know
everything, and it takes time to learn what you do know, so why should
I
treat anyone differently ?


True, but a) they have to be a member, and b) they have to want to learn.
I quickly lose patience with people who ask me for help, then repeat the same request some time later, just because I become "the quick fix" for any problems.

5. I think (like some other members it seems) that there is an
under-estimation of what the general public could do with GNU/Linux.
Isn't
it about time that we gave joe public the opportunity to genuinely try
GNU/Linux. This is not going to happen unless we change our habits.


Why change our habits ? We have good habits (in the main). Part of what attracted me to *nix in the first place was the sharing of information, done in a truthfull and relevant way.
Personally, I don't want to convert all windows users over to linux. It's not a religious mission for me. In fact, if Linux became the predominant "desktop" OS, I would quickly move on.
Ever worked in an IT support roll / call centre ? Its kind of sad, the downright stupidity that rears up all the time. It would only get worse if linux was a mainstream consumer OS.

So that said,

What is our future mission statement to be ?
Where is our plan of action for future expansion and inclusion into
the
group ?
How are we going to engage the wider public ?
Are we prepared to co-ordinate our efforts and bring GNU/Linux into
the
public domain ?
How do we intent to encourage the next generation ?

This message is intended as a tought provoker, and possibly an
instrument of
change in policy, however I can guarentee it will not be to all
members
liking. Appologies to any member who feels that this is a personal
attack,
please be assured that this is not the intention.

Tom.

Why does there have to be a mission ? Linux has got to this stage by being developed and used by geeks. As far as I'm concerned, there is no "next stage".
It really shouldn't be political, or the thing we love/enjoy will be destroyed. I don't advocate protectionism, where we deny people access to our knowledge, just that they come when they are ready.
Of course, a few more high profile Linux success stories wouldn't hurt, but thats about it really. ( And you Tom, are in the best place to advocate the use of Linux )

Just my opinion though. No harm, no foul.

alan

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