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Firstly, my appologies for not attending Exeter Meeting, I wanted to come, but I ended up on call because of a massive rewiring (Power and Internet), as it was I didnt get called up but hey I couldnt risk it. It seems that the meeting stimulated the debate so here are my observerations 1. Linux tends to invoke a Geek / Religious stereotype but stereotypes are just that. 2. There are good arguments for the ultimate thin client (ie web browser based services) but then everything is based on hosting, and network infrastructure. If you think this is going to help the digital divide you would be sadly mistaken. Provide computer access first, network infrastructure can come later and the learning curve will be shallower. Provide "Service" driven "pay per view" services and you will price the third world out of IT FOREVER. The PC is more democratic (I can use mine the way I want, you can use what you like on yours). The danger with web based service driven desktop is that someone as powerful as M****soft will corner the market. If your service provider becomes so powerful that he is your isp as well as your service provider, then he will be able to cut you off if he doesnt like what your using his software for. 3. Classed (fairly or unfairly) as a Geek group, we are not going to attract the singularly most important group people to switch to linux .... TNG ... swearing on this list will not aid this one bit, and maybe you can hear it in the primary playground where your kids go to but its highly discouraged where my son goes to school. Just because something is fact doesnt make it right. 4. Linux is a community project (THE (biggest) community project). People from all races, religous backgrounds and financial statuses have contributed. And yet in Torbay there is not one single community education program that is offering a basic introduction to what GNU/Linux is. I dont want to start a Distro war, I personally prefer RH/Fedora, but I wouldnt stop anyone who wants to try SUSE, Mandrake, or Debian from doing so, and a debian "Masterclass" sounds good, but it has to be balanced with the needs of newbies (and even the word newbie prickles with me). If we are going to use a community built project to run our computers then shouldnt we be involving the wider community in its use ? We dont advertise our meetings ouside our web site, so the message only gets to those that know about us already which is logically errr ... US, not much room for growth there then. I think this groups efforts should be concentrating in these areas. If someone is frightend of joining this group simply because they feel intimidated by the "geekyness" of its members (and I can be labled in the "geek" category too) then we have failed to get our message over. Every member is important from first page in the manual to 20,30,40 years IT experiance, and potential members are even more important. I have been in IT long enough now to recognise that you cant know everything, and it takes time to learn what you do know, so why should I treat anyone differently ? 5. I think (like some other members it seems) that there is an under-estimation of what the general public could do with GNU/Linux. Isn't it about time that we gave joe public the opportunity to genuinely try GNU/Linux. This is not going to happen unless we change our habits. So that said, What is our future mission statement to be ? Where is our plan of action for future expansion and inclusion into the group ? How are we going to engage the wider public ? Are we prepared to co-ordinate our efforts and bring GNU/Linux into the public domain ? How do we intent to encourage the next generation ? This message is intended as a tought provoker, and possibly an instrument of change in policy, however I can guarentee it will not be to all members liking. Appologies to any member who feels that this is a personal attack, please be assured that this is not the intention. Tom. Information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is the intended solely for the person ( or persons) to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender, and please delete the message from your system immediately. The views in this message are personal, they are not necessarily those of Torbay Council -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG Mail majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe list" in the message body to unsubscribe.