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----- Original Message ----- From: "Brough, Tom" <Tom.Brough@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <list@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 2:03 PM Subject: [LUG] My Own Observations Of Course
1. Linux tends to invoke a Geek / Religious stereotype but stereotypes are just that.
Agreed.
2. There are good arguments for the ultimate thin client (ie web browser based services) but then everything is based on hosting, and network infrastructure.
The ISP I work for has been steadily increasing our dependency on web based applications for the last seven years. I forget which Manager first coined the phrase "we want to become more webcentric", but personally I'd like to shoot him. Seven years ago the HTTP traffic volume was *just* for Internet traffic. The databases and other programs we used fairly zipped along as they used other protocols etc. Now we use HTTP for Internet, Intranet, and *three* databases (and I bet I've forgotten something having been off now seven months). Needless to say the bandwidth requirements have rocketed, while bandwidth *availability* has gone down the toilet. We're supposed to wrap up calls in an average of 6.5 minutes. That's unrealistic now that the databases take a minute or so to respond. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for using one interface to merge several functions together, and if a web browser is seen as a suitable interface because the majority of users are familiar with it, then fair enough. However, the infrastructure has to be in place *before* the program(s) is(are) launched. This may seem like common sense, but I'm sure we can all think of examples of the old adage "Common sense isn't". If you think this is going to help the digital divide you
would be sadly mistaken. Provide computer access first, network infrastructure can come later and the learning curve will be shallower.
I'd have to disagree (see my previous comments). The learning curve will stall completely if the users find the speed of the system untenable because the network is not there to support it.
3. Classed (fairly or unfairly) as a Geek group, we are not going to
attract
the singularly most important group people to switch to linux .... TNG ...
Would you agree with my earlier comment that Gamers are an important fraternity to target? I'm thinking this also because the majority of gamers fit into the TNG bracket. More games (such as the UT series - and I hear rumours that Doom 3 will have a Linux variant) that play faster on cheaper hardware will get them coming over to Linux in droves. Gamers are speed merchants, and if you can show them that you can play the same game better on a lesser machine with a Linux install they will be putty in your hands.
swearing on this list will not aid this one bit, and maybe you can hear it in the primary playground where your kids go to but its highly discouraged where my son goes to school. Just because something is fact doesnt make it right.
Agreed 100%.
If we are going to use a community built project to run our computers then shouldnt we be involving the wider community in its use ?
Of course it is impossible for you all to know by reading my emails, however I am disabled. IT is the perfect arena for a wheelchair user such as myself as it does not matter whether the user is sat on an office chair or in a wheelchair. Perhaps a foray into the Devon/Cornwall PHAB Clubs would be an idea? For those of you who don't know PHAB stands for Physically Handicapped And Able Bodied, and is a nationwide organisation designed to help integration of the disabled by getting them involved with youngsters who then grow up with them, and without the stereotypical images some of their older relatives may have had thrust upon them. In short it's a youth club organisation for disabled and able-bodied kids. Now there's an idea (he thinks): An Unreal Tournament LAN Party, half with MS boxes half with Linux boxes, and let Linux strut its' stuff in direct competition ;) What happens then (ideally) is: Kiddo goes home and puts Linux on his home PC. Parents come to nose and see what he is up to, maybe Dad likes playing games) or Mum like browsing or sending emails to Auntie Jessie. They see Linux and start to tell *their* friends (especially the ones who complain about Windows crashing all the time): "Oh I'm using Linux.... what does a crash look like?" ;)
If someone is frightend of joining this group simply because they feel intimidated by the "geekyness" of its members
(and
I can be labled in the "geek" category too) then we have failed to get our message over.
Again agreed, and I think maybe the LAN Party idea might get over that hurdle? Assuming they don't think "Oh no.... geeks AND they mod their boxes!" ;)
Every member is important from first page in the manual to 20,30,40 years IT experiance, and potential members are even more
important.
I have been in IT long enough now to recognise that you cant know everything, and it takes time to learn what you do know, so why should I treat anyone differently ?
True Zen there: The beginning of all wisdom is the admission 'I know nothing'. However from what you say Tom I think you came into IT in the same era as I did, that being if you didn't know something RTFM was the only answer you got. That being the case the older PC users (and I know I am generalising - I apologise) are usually more adept at resolving problems for themselves. I am on IRC quite often (which reminds me doesn't DCLUG operate a channel?) and it amazes me how many people come into a channel asking "Does anyone know about X?" My usual response other than "Look it up you lazy expletive, you're sat in front of the biggest information resource the world has ever known!!" is to mutter something about "Mr Google is your friend". The current generation of button-pushing users (as distinct from those who actually use the computer to be productive) seem to have lost the ability to think for themselves. I shouldn't really complain since they are the reason I (currently) have a job. So there is occasionally an element, not of elitism as it is sometimes IMHO wrongly categorised, but of frustration from those who have the drive to find things out for themselves battling a seemingly uphil endless battle against those who wish to be spoonfed. I'm sorry if that last bit seemed to wander off-topic into the mists of where my brain should be ;) My point though is that the button pushers don't seem to *want* to learn anything at all, much less anything new or anything that might require *gasp* effort. They want to be shown how to do everything with Windows, so getting them to make the effort to learn Linux is (IMHO) unlikely. They will need a Linux basic install where it is set up for them and all they need to do is use the applications. Of course it is entirely possible that the entire last paragraph is the result of a disillusioned and jaded mind having been off seven months with stress caused by the aforementioned "button pushers". If you feel I have been too harsh, please do not take offence, maybe in another time I would feel more kindly disposed to them. Kind regards, Julian -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG Mail majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe list" in the message body to unsubscribe.