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On 24/05/18 10:29, Giles Coochey wrote: > On 24/05/2018 09:47, Tom via list wrote: >> On 24/05/18 09:14, Gordon Henderson wrote: >>> >>> Not really interested anymore. >>> >>> Mostly because the stuff I do for real (and get paid good money for) >>> are miles apart from the things the 'dojo wants to be involved with. >>> >>> E.g. Arduino - I do not use c++ for real-time embedded applcations. >>> The Arduino platform is, frankly, an abomination and does not >>> encourage good programming (or hardware!) skills whatsoever. >>> >>> I do use the Arduino hardware platform, but usually for prototyping - >>> I then go on to develop my own hardware, or at least my own shields >>> for the Arduino where appropriate. >>> >>> The bbc microbit is too closely linked to Microsoft and Python too. >>> >>> So my view is that things like the dojo ought to be viewed as a nice >>> little club, but leave the real world teaching to schools and >>> universities. >> Up to that point I would agree with you. My daughters are being >> 'taught' IT by someone who knows nothing about it. I've spoken to >> several teachers and all they seem to be able to share is their fear >> of it. I spoke to a teacher involved in coordinating code teaching and >> the basic problem is none of the teachers have any IT experience. Kids >> ask them questions they cannot answer. >> As for universities - I've mentored someone with a 2.1 in computer >> science from a red brick uni who didn't know how to debug a program! >> It needs people with experience in there. >> Tom te tom te tom I am hearing similar things from other people, some from the Linux user group. Not sure how to solve this issue. >> > I'm not a coder, but I work in IT infrastructure, self-employed, and > have a general interest in tinkering. My thoughts on this is that the > importance is in generating interest in Technology (whether it be via > learning how to do trivial tasks with not necessarily the best tools, or > by crossing the bridge between causing a physical action via an > electronic manipulation of a variable or vice versa). > > By starting off with a large pool of users, then sure, while that pool > may decrease in size over time, those left will continue to explore the > technology available to them, learn to google for answers, learn to ask > questions etc... > > The appeal of Pi and Arduino is the cost - Arduino is almost within > pocket money reach for some teenagers, Pi perhaps not as much so, but > both are certainly within close family birthday/christmas present zone, > and many schools can assist to fund this access to technology. > > Back in the early 90s there was this guy called Linus who didn't like > the restrictions that minix put on his hardware, and he wanted to > explore the multitasking capabilities of the 386 PC processor, the rest > is history. > > The fact that the toolset is substandard shouldn't get in the way of > proclaiming the hardware as useless. > > The Arduino clones are more than affordable, the Pi zero is also affordable, While the technology such as the Arduino IDE may not be great, at least there are alternative ways to get it to do things, a coder dojo is perhaps a great platform to introduce a better way to get programs to run on the Arduino. If YP are keen to learn and are open to ideas then you can show them and help them get to the point where they can confidently programme an arduino without the normal IDE then that is great for everyone. As the fall back to help is at least there at the coderdojo. I agree with generating interest, but generating a postive interest, as a lot of people what PE was like at school and many may say they hated it and are put off physical activity as a result, so a positive experience with Computer science is also important, what do the kids like doing, for some simply making an LED blink is great, and grabs their interest. A lot of schools have digital leaders, if they can be encouraged to come along to coder dojos perhaps they can leave with ideas to present to teachers and act as a way to keep in touch and help teachers and other school staff. without those teachers taking time out of weekends to attend in person. Once you know what 'kit' a school has already you can work out perhaps what to help them get, An IT suite in terms of a set of Desktop PC's with separate monitors is ideal for PI's, as you already ahve keyboards and mice too. Where as a set of Laptops could mean you go a different route. Lets encourage and support the teachers, even if you just give them 1 resource it can make a difference. Paul -- http://www.zleap.net -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG https://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/listfaq