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Thanks Robin You said "Since sun java is now gpl there are packages in the debian repositories, not sure about ubuntu yet but worth a look." Thanks for that, in fact Synaptic on Ubuntu finds both j2re1.4 and j2sdk1.4, however this is not the case with Debian. A search for Java on Debian does not pick up the Sun stuff. For Debian I am using http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/, but I do not know what I am using on Ubuntu (Its automagic.. "Server for United Kingdom"). Should I be using another for Debian or should I try and find the ubuntu ones? Peter -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html