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You need to get over the price of ignorance too. A lot of people are using things because they know them better than anything else -- how do you convince someone happily making 30k a year doing their IT support job that they should relearn how to do everything using brand new tools, many of which require editing configuration files and typing commands, instead of poking things with a mouse. matt -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/listfaq