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Re: [LUG] OT vaccination was Re: iPad in school

 

On 12/11/11 11:51, James Kilty wrote:
>
> Alas, the way the science is
> done cannot deal with individualization - as you imply - the herd - and
> gross measures.

Obviously science can deal with individualisation. You seem to be
arguing the term herd implies it can't. I can change the term, herd
immunity is a poor term anyway, but it is the one that has stuck.

> Is not polio a disease of iodine deficiency? Prevent with
> KI (I think).

No Polio is a viral disease. We isolated Poliovirus 102 years ago, we
sequenced Poliovirus 30 years ago. Their has been a paradigm shift in
our understanding of the virus, but the best preventative is still to
vaccinate.

Polio is a good example of how the world has change, it was rife in my
father's youth, my dad had school friends who ended up in Iron lungs,
but vaccination has all but eradicated it. These people had proper diets
(arguably betters than modern diets), and proper sewers, yet they still
got Polio and many are still suffering ill effects from those Polio
infections.

http://www.heritage-britishpolio.org.uk/polio-memories

Iodine deficiency results in a decrease in thyroid hormone, which
diminishes the bodies ability to cope with anything, but I don't think
there is any specific connection. Indeed Polio was noted as occurring in
the affluent as well as the poor.

> All diseases treated by vaccinations were on the decline by the time the
> vaccine was produced.

This is simply false. Many of the worst outcomes had declined through
improvements in general health and medicine. However infectious diseases
like Measles are still rife, and return immediately to areas where
vaccination rates drop sufficiently to permit it.

Vaccines are typically used on diseases that haven't responded so well
to things like improved sanitation and diet.

For example typhoid vaccines exist, but we typically deal with typhoid
by cleaning up water supplies and improving sewage, not by vaccinating
(except under specific circumstances where the other options aren't
available or will take too long - e.g. disaster relief).

There are some claims that the world's poor need better nutrition, and
hygiene, and this will eradicate the infectious diseases. They may well
need these things, but it won't eradicate the infectious diseases. Just
as Polio persisted in the UK after we got good food, and proper sewers.

In contrast we've already demonstrated with Smallpox and Polio, that you
can eradicate some types of infectious disease with vaccination even in
people with poor diets and poor sanitation.

> There is a strong claim by homoeopaths

Sorry homoeopaths are kooks living is a world of science from before the
law of Mass Action, this undermines their credibility as a source of any
claims in the scientific arena.

> that vaccination undermines the body's natural defences, ultimately
> leading to more potent diseases such as cancer.

Where is the evidence for the claim?

Typically vaccines work by provoking a similar response in the immune
system that the infection would cause, but without the death and damage
that infection usually brings.

We know non-specific inflammation from infectious diseases causes cancer.

We have introduced a vaccine recently in the UK specifically targeted at
reducing a viral infection known to cause cancer.

We know that vaccination against Hepatitis B reduces the incidence of
liver cancer.

These are well documented and substantiated aspects of our knowledge of
cancer (which is a pretty broad collection of disorders). I presume you
have similarly well documented evidence for vaccinations causing cancers?

> We can beg to differ in our views and still remain friends for the
> purposes of the LUG.

It is fine to disagree, some of my best friends use homoeopathy, believe
in god or gods, visit chiropractors etc. I try to avoid it getting in
the way as long as it doesn't endanger others.

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