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Re: [LUG] OT: Re: If you don't Vote, you can't whinge..

 

On 05/05/11 09:06, Henry Bremridge wrote:
> 
> :) if you have AV and just vote for your preferred party then there is no
> change over the current system.

You see AV is so brilliant those people who don't like AV can express
one choice only, and when their candidate is eliminated any further
opinions they hold on who should represent them will be disregarded as
it was before.

So the "No" side can carry on as normal without even bothering to vote
in the referendum.

> I would also hope that people actually vote for parties they want to
> run the place: the mind shudders if there is a close race and a lot of
> people have "the fringe" as their alternates. 

It is irrelevant, as the fringes are eliminated first, otherwise they
wouldn't be the fringe.

> I like Government ruling from the Centre.

Presumably you mean you like a government that has a majority even if it
is not the first choice of the majority of the electorate. A reasonable
view but not terribly democratic.

For what it is worth the National Socialists became the largest party in
1933 under PR, so I'm guessing you can still get decisive leadership
under voting systems other than FPTP ;)

> Best argument I have heard is 

I think it was rather bad argument.

It argues that AV is not a genuinely more proportional system than FPTP,
and so concludes "why change". Which is a fine argument if AV is not
more proportional.

Proportionality of voting systems is a mathematically decidable question
although quite a difficult one, and everything I've seen suggests AV is
an improvement on the matter of proportionality (voting systems have
many characteristics of which proportionality is only one but I think
quite an important one).

So presumably when the Economists check with their statisticians they'll
come back next week and say "oops sorry - our bad" we meant we would
vote "yes" because it is an improvement in proportionality even if not
as much as we would like.

As regards sapping the appetite for reform, we'll be told we can't have
another referendum after a "No Vote" because we clearly didn't want a
more proportional system when it was offered in May 2011.

Prof John M also wrote an article in the E&E, which assessed the merits
of the system on the basis of the last result in the Exeter
parliamentary election. Whilst it is interesting the Ben Bradshaw is
well supported to get elected under either system, it is kind of
irrelevant to the choice, because most voting systems that are even
vaguely democratic will produce mostly similar results most of the time.

I like also that AV means standing as a candidate doesn't so
dramatically undermine the candidate with opinions closest to your own.
So the UKIP candidate may not undermine the Tory vote, and the Communist
won't undermine the Socialist Democrat, who won't undermine the Labour
candidate, who won't undermine the Liberal (who would have been the only
candidate to stand a chance against the Tory if he hadn't promised no
tuitions fees and then voted for them).

 Simon



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