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Tom Potts wrote: > I thought most of them used BT provided stuff at wholesale prices - ie they > can go and put their own gear in but BT have (to have) deals that allow the > smaller suppliers to rent bt eqpt and services. As far as I understand it, MOST ISP's do get the connections at wholesale prices through BT OpenReach (which is the wholesale arm of BT), even BT OpenWorld have to go through BT OpenReach AFAIK. Some of the bigger ISP's (Carphone Warehouse, Orange etc) are now in some cases going down the LLU route. Hence why some people can get the 'free' broadband from Carphone Warehouse whereas others have to pay the monthly charge (about £15 a month?) as the ISP hasn't installed any of their own equipment in the exchanges due to lack of demand. With regards to Orange Broadband, I know a few people who are on Orange with the Livebox. I've had mixed comments about them. Some people I speak to think they are either great or okay and others have had no end of problems. From experience I've found the likes of Zen and now Enta (whom Vivaciti and UKFSN and others resell their services) to be very helpful with their tech support. They get things just about right so I can phone them and when I have a problem and tell them what I have done or my other half who really has no understanding about how ADSL or Networks work can also phone them during the day for support. Rob -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html