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As a general comment re this thread: Some problems are quite technical. One of the lies sold in computing is that a GUI will make things easier. In order to manage a problem you have to understand it - Windows, and now to an increasing extent GNOME/KDE/OO etc give users the power to 'set things up quickly' and then repent at leisure. I believe its a Cornish expression when asking for directions 'Ooh you don't want to start from here'. Alas that seems to be where most of us are! Tom te tom te tom -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html