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what do you think to this, http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=news.show.article.page&obj_id=130341 He seems to think the internet was invented along side web pages, but thats a side issue, no discredit to tim, (the guy from cern) i am ssure we could come up with some ideas paul -- http://www.zleap.net W -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG http://mailman.dclug.org.uk/listinfo/list FAQ: http://www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html