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Re: Backing GNU to the hilt (was Re: [LUG] Waiting for keyboard input in a shell script)

 

On Sunday 27 November 2005 10:27 pm, Ben Goodger wrote:
> Neil, your mad loyalty to "freedom" is becoming annoying.

Good. It pays to make a nuisance of myself from time to time. It gets things 
discussed.
:-)

It's not as if I raise this every month or anything.

> If I want to watch a Flash cartoon, or listen to (or at least convert from)
> MP3 audio, I should be allowed to do so.

You are, I'd just rather you helped with whatever free software methods could 
be devised, that's all.

I'm not saying this is to be removed from distributions, I'm saying it is high 
time that users realise that there IS something at stake from encouraging 
such non-free programs and to THINK before recommending them.

n.b. converting mp3 to ogg or anything else isn't recommended - too much data 
is lost. Better to create new ogg files from original media.

> If I am stopped from doing so by 
> people such as you who prevent the distribution of such software in Linux,
> that compromises my freedom.

Of course it would, I didn't say I wanted that. Just for people to realise 
what is really happening, to stop before recommending such action and to 
pursue a better course whenever possible.

If you have the original media and play your files using GNU/Linux, there is 
no need to have any .mp3 files.

I've got MP3 support on my Palm but I don't use it because there is a .ogg 
player that I could use (when I get around to installing it).

> > X11 is ugly and doesn't follow the Mac HIG, and most people won't use it.
> >
> > So? I don't care, it's free software and that is what matters, above all
> > else.
>
> This is insane fanaticism. 

Only when taken out of context. I don't care that X11 is ugly in terms of 
future development. It is free so it can always get better. Actually, I don't 
think X11 on OSX is ugly anyway. It's functional and I've always rated 
function higher than appearance. Probably why I have such a hard time 
developing on OSX - it looks pretty on the surface but it stinks to high 
heaven under the skin.

> Can you not see the logic in the fact that not 
> all open-source software is great, and that not all non-free software is
> inferior?

No, to me that is simply backwards. Freedom is more important than anything 
else - if I cannot modify the source code, the program is automatically 
inferior. It is actually inferior to no program at all. I'd rather use 
nothing than non-free, so I don't have .mp3 or flash or real-audio etc. In my 
eyes, Sage is inferior to gnucash because gnucash is free.

I'd be quite happy for all non-free software to disappear overnight but I am 
not about to force that on anyone else. Much better to persuade people that 
free software is intrinsically better than anything proprietary simply by 
being free.

If I had to rate all software, anything proprietary would receive negative 
marks, anything that didn't exist (but should) zero marks and anything that 
was GPL-compatible would receive positive marks. So just be glad there's no 
reason to do that!

> Would you have me use Windows 98 if it were free and Linux were 
> proprietary?

Yes. Except that GPL software cannot be made non-free so then we'd have a 
choice between GNU and Win98 - so then I'd choose GNU (with maybe one 
favourite game from Win98).

Everything I hated about Win98 could be fixed if it were free software. It'd 
probably break a whole host of applications and strip out entire sections of 
code but it'd be better than anything non-free. On reflection, it would be 
not much more than a Gnome theme with Wine but it's worth doing anyway!

> As for your bit about us joining the FSF, waving the banner and destroying
> anyone who attacks GNU, there is a certain year in the 80s which that
> reminds me of. Also a certain nineteen-thirties political party.

Join the FSF? Did I say that? (It was an idea a while ago, but not mine.)
Destroy those who attack GNU? Did I actually say that?

No, support the FSF and don't support those who attack GNU.

That's just self-preservation.

Do you have any desire for GNU to be around in 20 years time?

What about 50? 5?

> Moderation, please.

(I'll moderate when people like Microsoft, UKPO, etc. back off!)

GNU is vulnerable, GNU needs people prepared to invest time and effort in 
protecting what we already have as well as what we seek to attain. We haven't 
got bottomless pots of cash like some of our detractors, so all we can fight 
with is our enthusiasm. If that comes across as fanatical, then (like 
Rackspace) I'd wear the badge with pride. I'm a huge GNU fan - why should 
that be a problem?

I am prepared to take the fight to those who attack our freedoms - I do what I 
can to combat software patents and I do what I can to improve those free 
software projects with which I am involved. That's my bit, my quota, my debt 
to the free software community.

I'm a VERY small fish in a big, nasty, world where the only people to defend 
me are the same size and all the ones who want to eat me are hundreds of 
times larger. A bit like a single mackerel in a bait ball with tuna and 
dolphins all around. All I want is a little support from my peers. Is that 
too much to expect?

> If open-source stuff is inferior to the proprietary 
> equivalent, I would use the proprietary version. Because it is better.

You'd sell out, I would not. Your choice and mine.

IMHO, nothing proprietary can ever be better than anything free.

If all free software developers followed your logic, GNU would never have 
started.

Someone has to get out there with a first release - breaking new ground. Of 
course there is some proprietary alternative - there nearly always is. Why 
should that stop us? It is imperative that people like me take that step 
despite any non-free alternative - free software needs to move into those 
gaps and create something. No-one cares if the free software project is 
inferior, the fact is that it is free. That is all that matters.

Or are you saying I should give up with my development work and pay for 
proprietary software that has been doing the job for years already? (Would 
you buy it for me?)

Am I wasting my time creating inferior versions of proprietary code?

It'll be some time before my code is anywhere near what already exists in the 
proprietary world. Do you think I should surrender?

Do you support me in my development work or should I just give up?

I NEED people like you to STOP using proprietary alternatives and SUPPORT new 
projects like mine that are inferior but can be improved with YOUR help.

I want your input, your feedback on my software. You are as important as every 
other user in our community and I would hope that you could see your way to 
supporting me.

> Sure, I'd love to improve Rhythmbox, or create a complete replacement for
> Flash, or modifiy GTK so that the text in its buttons aren't right next to
> the icons; but I haven't time.

Maybe try creating some wishlist bugs and at least let others know who might 
have some time.

-- 

Neil Williams
=============
http://www.data-freedom.org/
http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/

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