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Well, I was VB developer for about 7 years, writing desktop apps, all day, every day.. and while VB has its flaws, it's not bad for mocking up GUI apps, quickly. GUI apps have no real place on a server, that's true enough, but for the desktop, yeah it really needs to be GUI, and usabilty for GUI apps is really not all that hard, there are resources like the GNOME Human Interface Guidelines, Apple publish something similar. I like GNOME, but as soon as you stray outside of the stuff that comes bundled with it, you start to see some inconsistent interfaces, and that's pretty poor. Things like that will make it take longer to get the GNU OS onto mainstream desktops. matt -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG Mail majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe list" in the message body to unsubscribe. FAQ: www.dcglug.org.uk/linux_adm/list-faq.html