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Well in true Neil style, I broke it, I fixed it !, not quite sure how tho !!! first thing i did was upgrade the pppd by getting ppp-2.4.1 from www.rpmfind.net (good source of rpms that guys) I tinkered with the /etc/ppp/options file. Now it reads............ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ asyncmap 0 auth crtscts lock modem debug kdebug 4 proxyarp lcp-echo-interval 30 lcp-echo-failure 4 noipx defaultroute ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ now dials up connects, authenticates, assigns IP and works. YAY !!!!! Only one small problem tho !! (come on you knew it was comming) it dosn't always talk to the remote computer at the correct baud, i get a lot of scrambled stuff back. normally i get login: then password:, instead i get lines like "r[cltg93" wierd eh ? Any ideas on this one will be much appreciated Neil -- The Mailing List for the Devon & Cornwall LUG Mail majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxx with "unsubscribe list" in the message body to unsubscribe.